Author Topic: Assetification.tk is now updated  (Read 5162 times)

Lunero #15 on: October 05, 2014, 11:28:21 PM

  • Senior Fimker
  • ***
  • Posts: 166
    • View Profile
Yes, anything can happen to a single person, which is the main trust issue here. How about FIMK association functioning as the backer? Registered association could and should do that non-profit (for legal purposes), any other legal issues? Do the rules of the FIMK association allow this? If no problems for the association, or users of the service provided by association (AFAIK there shouldn't be, as reporting rise of value of "investment" in cryptocurrency is the responsibility of the trader), as member of the association I would support this idea. Association would, if I'm not mistaken, also have the means ("war chest" and FIMKs and some euros from membership fees etc.) to back up the assets and it could solve the hen and egg problem by putting up both initial buy and and sell orders at days rate.

Which of all needed various currency accounts does the association have now at it's disposal?

Using AE for exchange is good idea, I have no problem with it - except that we need the service also in Finnish language, to begin with. Most importantly we need good and easy enough system to exchange Euro and FIMK ASAP. All other currencies are less important at this point of evolution.

Yes, this is a valid point, I should add more information on who you are trusting when trusting in the assets within AE. Actually Fitcoin is the ussiuer of the assets, and it is not the same warchest as FIMK, since fimk is a non profit. Fitcoin is still run by the same people, its the legal layer for FIMK-Euro economical interaction.

I will provide translations, and more information on trust later.

The asset exchange operation can be automated later, after we have a healthy exchange within AE.

Eliphaz Fimk #16 on: October 05, 2014, 11:31:09 PM

  • FIMKrypto coordinator
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 827
    • View Profile
    • FIMKrypto
The association avoids engaging directly in asset issuance and trading for legal and accounting reasons.

The assets Konsta is selling are not issued by him, but by the Fitcoin company whose owner is me. The company is registered in Estonia and doesn't have similar obstacles as the Finnish registered association. The person to trust is however the same as the one to trust with the association, which can be both good and bad however the goal of this arrangement is of course to promote trust.

Assets are in their experimental phases thus few announcements are made at this phase, anyhow the arrangement has been fully transparent and public as described here: http://forum.fimk.fi/index.php?topic=382.msg1752#msg1752

Anyone can volunteer to resell the Fitcoin issued assets. They are intended to be the most trusted and de facto trading assets for the commodities they represent, for the very reason that was mentioned: They are controlled by the chairman of the board of the association (and currently distributed by the vice president  :D)

id-entti-tentti #17 on: October 06, 2014, 12:22:30 AM

  • Senior Fimker
  • ***
  • Posts: 188
    • View Profile
The association avoids engaging directly in asset issuance and trading for legal and accounting reasons.

The assets Konsta is selling are not issued by him, but by the Fitcoin company whose owner is me. The company is registered in Estonia and doesn't have similar obstacles as the Finnish registered association. The person to trust is however the same as the one to trust with the association, which can be both good and bad however the goal of this arrangement is of course to promote trust.

Assets are in their experimental phases thus few announcements are made at this phase, anyhow the arrangement has been fully transparent and public as described here: http://forum.fimk.fi/index.php?topic=382.msg1752#msg1752

Anyone can volunteer to resell the Fitcoin issued assets. They are intended to be the most trusted and de facto trading assets for the commodities they represent, for the very reason that was mentioned: They are controlled by the chairman of the board of the association (and currently distributed by the vice president  :D)

The Interface says it's Konsta's account, Fitcoin is not mentioned. Very confusing, first we are told that this is Konsta's private project, now that it is backed by Fitcoin.

Does Fitcoin have it's own accounts in all currencies involved and how much capital does it have to back up the assets? Who does the manual transactions and how many people have access to Fitcoins accounts, in case of force majoure incident to a singe person? Supposing the Fitcoin exchange becomes popular and all the manual transactions are handled by a single person, who is also the chairman and core developer, will all his time be consumed by typing account numbers and currency sums instead of developing other parts of FIMK ecosystem?
FIM-K56K-6XHL-DWT8-ANWN9
NXT-73NA-CWA6-KHV5-65HPC

Eliphaz Fimk #18 on: October 06, 2014, 12:42:40 AM

  • FIMKrypto coordinator
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 827
    • View Profile
    • FIMKrypto
Fitcoin assets can be resold by anyone. Currently some of them have been obtained and are resold by Konsta in his own private project, fimkassetification.tk. The only relationships he has with Fitcoin is that he is reselling the assets, and he is occasionally helping with some tech stuff. Thus he naturally would not name his account to anything like Fitcoin.

Does Fitcoin have it's own accounts in all currencies involved
Yes

Quote
how much capital does it have to back up the assets?
Enough at any time to redeem the assets in circulation

This is a question of trust, except for cryptocurrencies whose backing funds can and will be made public. Arrangements and adjustments are in progress so the public BTC account for example still fluctuates these days.

Quote
Who does the manual transactions and how many people have access to Fitcoins accounts, in case of force majoure incident to a singe person? Supposing the Fitcoin exchange becomes popular and all the manual transactions are handled by a single person, who is also the chairman and core developer, will all his time be consumed by typing account numbers and currency sums instead of developing other parts of FIMK ecosystem?
There are practically no manual transactions to do at this writing. I'm aware of the implications of a projected increase in success and workload and have planned accordingly.

Part of this is offset by the model of resold assets, which are not required for final redemption very often because the resellers juggle them back and forth with their own customers.

The rest, if applicable, will be handled by hired workforce.

I have done my fair share of manual exchange transactions already in the past 15 years :) however in this position one unfortunately cannot avoid them completely.

I'm currently working on full volunteer basis and not quite full time (but more than half time) for the association. This is due to change later this year.

id-entti-tentti #19 on: October 06, 2014, 01:13:23 AM

  • Senior Fimker
  • ***
  • Posts: 188
    • View Profile
Got it. So Fitcoin is sort of a Ripple/Stellar lite for/on Fimk, and fimkassetification.tk is a Fitcoin gateway?

Does not sound overly simple, rather the contrary :D.

Lot of trust issues with the resellers/gateways, lots of opportunities to cheater-"gateways" buying and selling assets, and I don't see yet how the Fitcoin resellers/gateways is improvement to simple forum bids in that respect. It's more complicated than forum bids (using AE), and the real value of Fitcoin assets is in the trust of Fitcoin.

Hope it goes well and becomes fully functional. Live long and prosper!

FIM-K56K-6XHL-DWT8-ANWN9
NXT-73NA-CWA6-KHV5-65HPC

dance #20 on: October 06, 2014, 01:16:56 AM

  • Senior Fimker
  • ***
  • Posts: 137
    • View Profile
Enough at any time to redeem the assets in circulation
Formally saying, in case of Fiat assets issuer doesn't backing up assets by his (or company's) money. They are backed up by people's money who are initially bought the assets. All the issuer is doing - is keeping the money till redeeming.
FIMK: dance

Eliphaz Fimk #21 on: October 06, 2014, 01:21:38 AM

  • FIMKrypto coordinator
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 827
    • View Profile
    • FIMKrypto
Formally saying, in case of Fiat assets issuer doesn't backing up assets by his (or company's) money. They are backed up by people's money who are initially bought the assets. All the issuer is doing - is keeping the money till redeeming.
Thanks for wording out that clarification. Of course, this money is not earmarked on the company's fiat bank accounts (unlike the crypto) but in accounting it definitely is. In fact Fitcoin does have a separate customer funds account, but this will also hold other exchange related customer funds in addition to the FIMK EUR and possibly USD asset funds.

dance #22 on: October 06, 2014, 01:21:59 AM

  • Senior Fimker
  • ***
  • Posts: 137
    • View Profile
Got it. So Fitcoin is sort of a Ripple/Stellar lite for/on Fimk, and fimkassetification.tk is a Fitcoin gateway?
I would say that the Ripple is just a bunch of gateways :)

Lot of trust issues with the resellers/gateways, lots of opportunities to cheater-"gateways" buying and selling assets, and I don't see yet how the Fitcoin resellers/gateways is improvement to simple forum bids in that respect. It's more complicated than forum bids (using AE), and the real value of Fitcoin assets is in the trust of Fitcoin.
And I can say that currently trust issues for gateways - are absolutely the same issues as for crypto exchanges.
FIMK: dance

Lunero #23 on: October 06, 2014, 02:11:41 AM

  • Senior Fimker
  • ***
  • Posts: 166
    • View Profile
From ordinary user point of view simple exchange like bittiraha.fi is much easier to use than multicurrency exchange/gateway platform which serves also day trading speculators.
Sorry, I accidentally deleted your post, modify is right next to quote.

Maybe I should make an ordinary joe exchange, with big fonts and only 2 options, exchange euro for fimk and exchange fimk for euro.

Kimmo #24 on: October 07, 2014, 10:02:28 PM

  • Fresh Fimker
  • *
  • Posts: 37
    • View Profile
Sorry, I accidentally deleted your post, modify is right next to quote.

Maybe I should make an ordinary joe exchange, with big fonts and only 2 options, exchange euro for fimk and exchange fimk for euro.

Please, do that :)

Also put a big link to that exchange with a big font on the fimk.fi frontpage like "GET FIMK" :)

Meanwhile, I'm going to DGEX (btw, only one of those letters are actually being used in Finnish and that's 'E' - something to think about when making up a name for an exchange)

Kimmo #25 on: October 07, 2014, 10:16:13 PM

  • Fresh Fimker
  • *
  • Posts: 37
    • View Profile
The perfect OJE (Ordinary Joe Exchange) also by default creates a wallet for you (advanced settings: enter FIMK-address) and puts the coins you just bought in your wallet and then says "Have a nice day!".

Eliphaz Fimk #26 on: October 07, 2014, 10:56:45 PM

  • FIMKrypto coordinator
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 827
    • View Profile
    • FIMKrypto
That's some good thinking, FIMK wallet loaded ready for use. That way we already do it with new ry members who don't know how to handle their wallet :)

id-entti-tentti #27 on: October 08, 2014, 05:33:35 AM

  • Senior Fimker
  • ***
  • Posts: 188
    • View Profile
That's some good thinking, FIMK wallet loaded ready for use. That way we already do it with new ry members who don't know how to handle their wallet :)

FIM-K56K-6XHL-DWT8-ANWN9
NXT-73NA-CWA6-KHV5-65HPC